Comments on: The Hammer of Witches http://frothygirlz.com/2010/03/05/the-hammer-of-witches/ Pop culture with an attitude Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:31:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Varika http://frothygirlz.com/2010/03/05/the-hammer-of-witches/comment-page-1/#comment-3355 Varika Mon, 10 May 2010 03:50:01 +0000 http://frothygirlz.com/?p=11530#comment-3355 I can think of one good medical reason why a person would be unable to cry: dehydration. I suffer from chronic dehydration, and even when I want to cry I often don't get tears in my eyes. So a person who's been tortured for a couple of days and isn't given much water, if any, will probably not be in a position to cry. Even just being imprisoned without much water leaves you dehydrated, so by the time the judge gets to the accused, they may not be able to cry simply because there's not enough water in their body to spare for it. I can think of one good medical reason why a person would be unable to cry: dehydration. I suffer from chronic dehydration, and even when I want to cry I often don’t get tears in my eyes. So a person who’s been tortured for a couple of days and isn’t given much water, if any, will probably not be in a position to cry. Even just being imprisoned without much water leaves you dehydrated, so by the time the judge gets to the accused, they may not be able to cry simply because there’s not enough water in their body to spare for it.

]]> By: Mr. Smarty Pants http://frothygirlz.com/2010/03/05/the-hammer-of-witches/comment-page-1/#comment-2059 Mr. Smarty Pants Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:40:46 +0000 http://frothygirlz.com/?p=11530#comment-2059 Thanks for the info CSM! I truly appreciate it! Thanks for the info CSM! I truly appreciate it!

]]> By: Christopher S. Mackay http://frothygirlz.com/2010/03/05/the-hammer-of-witches/comment-page-1/#comment-2058 Christopher S. Mackay Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:31:55 +0000 http://frothygirlz.com/?p=11530#comment-2058 I've produced the only modern edition of the original text of the Malleus (with English translation), http://www.amazon.com/Malleus-Maleficarum-Set-Christopher-Mackay/dp/0521859778/sr=8-1/qid=1166811440/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7435447-5495938?ie=UTF8&s=books so I know a bit about this work. You shouldn't quote Carl Sagan, who obviously knows nothing about the actual text. Apart from anything else, the papal bull Summis desiderantes has nothing to do with the publication of the Malleus, and the pope most certainly did not appoint either Sprenger or Institioris to write the work (the bull was about a dispute concerning legal jurisdiction and was written in response to a petition submitted to the pope by Institoris, the text of the bull actually being based on that petition). As for crying, the notion that real witches can't is part of the construct ("paradigm") of witchcraft. Institoris believed in an interpretation of witchcraft ("satanism") that was a novel construct, and part of this held that Satan was able to assist the accused so that they wouldn't feel the pain of torture (the *maleficium taciturnitatis* or "sorcery of silence"). It may well be that some people accused of this nonsense were able to withstand the pain of it without crying, but the fact that provision is made to explain why some apparently do cry and to dispense with tears seen by guards with the argument that it's only in front of the judge that they can't cry shows that some of the accused actually did cry (and likely most did). Fundamentally, you're dealing with the explanation of a set of phenomena by a man who has a very clear sense in his own mind of what he sees, and interprets the evidence on the basis of this. Institoris's descriptions of the supposed evidence can't be taken as a straightforward indication of "what really happened." These matters are discussed at great length in the introduction to the large scholarly edition noted above. You can find a much shorter version in the stand-alone edition of only the English translation: http://www.amazon.com/Hammer-Witches-Complete-Translation-Maleficarum/dp/0521747872/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233728624&sr=8-2 FWIW, the quotation you cite is from the online version of Montague Summers' completely unreliable edition of 1928. You'd be better of with my published version. CSM I’ve produced the only modern edition of the original text of the Malleus (with English translation),

http://www.amazon.com/Malleus-Maleficarum-Set-Christopher-Mackay/dp/0521859778/sr=8-1/qid=1166811440/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7435447-5495938?ie=UTF8&s=books

so I know a bit about this work. You shouldn’t quote Carl Sagan, who obviously knows nothing about the actual text. Apart from anything else, the papal bull Summis desiderantes has nothing to do with the publication of the Malleus, and the pope most certainly did not appoint either Sprenger or Institioris to write the work (the bull was about a dispute concerning legal jurisdiction and was written in response to a petition submitted to the pope by Institoris, the text of the bull actually being based on that petition).

As for crying, the notion that real witches can’t is part of the construct (“paradigm”) of witchcraft. Institoris believed in an interpretation of witchcraft (“satanism”) that was a novel construct, and part of this held that Satan was able to assist the accused so that they wouldn’t feel the pain of torture (the *maleficium taciturnitatis* or “sorcery of silence”). It may well be that some people accused of this nonsense were able to withstand the pain of it without crying, but the fact that provision is made to explain why some apparently do cry and to dispense with tears seen by guards with the argument that it’s only in front of the judge that they can’t cry shows that some of the accused actually did cry (and likely most did). Fundamentally, you’re dealing with the explanation of a set of phenomena by a man who has a very clear sense in his own mind of what he sees, and interprets the evidence on the basis of this. Institoris’s descriptions of the supposed evidence can’t be taken as a straightforward indication of “what really happened.”

These matters are discussed at great length in the introduction to the large scholarly edition noted above. You can find a much shorter version in the stand-alone edition of only the English translation:

http://www.amazon.com/Hammer-Witches-Complete-Translation-Maleficarum/dp/0521747872/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233728624&sr=8-2

FWIW, the quotation you cite is from the online version of Montague Summers’ completely unreliable edition of 1928. You’d be better of with my published version.

CSM

]]> By: Mr. Smarty Pants http://frothygirlz.com/2010/03/05/the-hammer-of-witches/comment-page-1/#comment-1995 Mr. Smarty Pants Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:09:08 +0000 http://frothygirlz.com/?p=11530#comment-1995 Grazie TC ~ Having finished the post, I realize it was a cathartic exercise for me. I feel like it's not stuck in my head now, and I can "move on". I look at this sort of stuff, and then feel horrible for looking. It bothers me to know that by the sheer grace of fate and good fortune that I was born here (in America), now, as opposed to Europe 500 years ago. I don't think I'd have fared very well in that medieval madness. I question whether I'd have had the balls to stand up to people being fucking tortured. The safe play would have been to keep your head down, and stay out of the way. But by doing that, you'd come to understand the saying, "A coward dies a thousand deaths" all too well. [shivers] I'm already looking forward to my next post. Much more upbeat! Grazie TC ~ Having finished the post, I realize it was a cathartic exercise for me. I feel like it’s not stuck in my head now, and I can “move on”. I look at this sort of stuff, and then feel horrible for looking. It bothers me to know that by the sheer grace of fate and good fortune that I was born here (in America), now, as opposed to Europe 500 years ago. I don’t think I’d have fared very well in that medieval madness. I question whether I’d have had the balls to stand up to people being fucking tortured. The safe play would have been to keep your head down, and stay out of the way. But by doing that, you’d come to understand the saying, “A coward dies a thousand deaths” all too well.

[shivers]

I’m already looking forward to my next post. Much more upbeat!

]]> By: Hollywood Hood http://frothygirlz.com/2010/03/05/the-hammer-of-witches/comment-page-1/#comment-1994 Hollywood Hood Fri, 05 Mar 2010 15:02:34 +0000 http://frothygirlz.com/?p=11530#comment-1994 Smarty - Your right, that's not exactly a feel good piece you've assembled. It is, however, a fascinating look at how humans can suspend logic and do some incredibly heinous things. Beware overly pious folks, they might just throw you in a pot and roast you! Smarty – Your right, that’s not exactly a feel good piece you’ve assembled. It is, however, a fascinating look at how humans can suspend logic and do some incredibly heinous things. Beware overly pious folks, they might just throw you in a pot and roast you!

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